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Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
4
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Posted - 2014.03.20 20:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
IMO the I like the ORE changes
I highly DISLIKE the Module/Scraps Reprocessing Changes..
Not only is this nerfing professions like salvaging/reprocessing (I do this) but it seems like such a waste.
In alternative...
You should be able to achieve 100% refine with 10.0 Standing (NPC station) + Perfect Skills + Implant
Also change the m3 amounts for modules so they are more reflective of there mineral composition. |

Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
4
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Posted - 2014.03.20 20:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rukoro Okagima wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rukoro Okagima wrote:
And your one of those I live in null sec so everyone else go.......... so are you not worth my time. No I understand its not free and I will always go for what's most profitable and knowing me I will buy minerals with mineral profits but it seem just a little like screwing some to unscrew others why not try to fix the issue. Tbh I feel null sec should because of the risks have a buff eg like 120% efficiency however I don't think that a player with perfect standings with an npc corp (and perfect refining skills) should have less then 99% efficiency.
You can only have 100% efficiency. In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go. coughs so you've read the Dev blog then points to Hisec 113% efficiency stats And I thought I was on shaky ground..
you only ever get 100% efficiency... the extra % is just wasted. |

Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
4
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Posted - 2014.03.20 20:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Querns wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:Do all the people in empire not realize that 78.2% refine after patch will be the same 100% refine they are currently getting? Empire isn't getting nerfed null is getting a slight buff. That is only true for Ores. Modules will not receive this boost, and modules are heavily used in mineral compression to move massive amounts of materials around. Null is actually getting a nerf at the same time it is getting a buff. Did you miss where ore compression is getting a massive boost to compensate for the loss of scrapmetal processing?
Some people don't use scrap metal reprocessing only for compression... |

Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
4
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Posted - 2014.03.20 20:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kadl wrote:Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:You should be able to achieve 100% refine with 10.0 Standing (NPC station) + Perfect Skills + Implant
Also change the m3 amounts for modules so they are more reflective of there mineral composition. A while ago I mentioned that some people would feel uncomfortable if they couldn't ever get their number to 100%. My suggestion is to realize that there is a max player skill at max efficiency station and that is essentially 100%. Rate yourself against that and forget the silly game mechanics where all the asteroids suddenly have more tritanium. An increase in volume (m3) would be an interesting addition since it would localize production of some items or force an additional cost in transportation. In the past CCP reduced transportation costs with jump freighters and the like. Increasing volume requires an increase in transportation which requires increased costs. Increased transportation costs encourages local production in null as well as high sec. We will have to see what CCP wants to do with this opportunity.
You never get more than 100% refine that is the cap. (theoretically yes... in game no) |

Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
5
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kadl wrote:Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:Kadl wrote:Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:You should be able to achieve 100% refine with 10.0 Standing (NPC station) + Perfect Skills + Implant
Also change the m3 amounts for modules so they are more reflective of there mineral composition. A while ago I mentioned that some people would feel uncomfortable if they couldn't ever get their number to 100%. My suggestion is to realize that there is a max player skill at max efficiency station and that is essentially 100%. Rate yourself against that and forget the silly game mechanics where all the asteroids suddenly have more tritanium. An increase in volume (m3) would be an interesting addition since it would localize production of some items or force an additional cost in transportation. In the past CCP reduced transportation costs with jump freighters and the like. Increasing volume requires an increase in transportation which requires increased costs. Increased transportation costs encourages local production in null as well as high sec. We will have to see what CCP wants to do with this opportunity. You never get more than 100% refine that is the cap. (theoretically yes... in game no) The question is 100% of what? A percent alone does not tell the story. For example the new cap for efficiency is 86.9%. Lets go through the steps: 1) CCP magically adds 38.1% more minerals to all ores. 2) Your old efficiency in high sec was 100% of the minerals in the ore, but now the ore has more minerals. 3) Your new efficiency in high sec is 72.4%* of the minerals in the ore, but no one can get more than 86.9%. Your new efficiency gives you the same number of minerals. 4) OH MY THERE ARE MINERALS LEFT IN THE ORE!!!! - Those minerals were not there before. So if you compare the number of minerals received from old method vs new method then you could have a percentage above 100%. This means CCP is buffing the minerals obtained from ore, but we already know that because in step one CCP magically added more minerals. * The caveat is that you need to have maxed skills. If you skimped because you were "good enough," well times change and you aren't.
Ahh I misunderstood your reply.
To be frankly honest the ORE change do not interest me nor do I care about it..
My concern was with the module changes.. (or really lack there of) |

Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
7
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Posted - 2014.03.21 17:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Matalino wrote:Weaselior wrote:Crappeshotte wrote:TLDR, but I have a question for the Devs...
I own junk - ships and modules - across four hisec regions which I have bought specifically for the purposes of reprocessing. If I were to reprocess them all today - which isn't practical - they would convert into perhaps 20 billion ISK worth of minerals.
If I understand correctly - and I accept that I may not - after this change is introduced, the quantity of minerals I'd get back - and hence their value - would be dramatically less, even if I skilled up to the max (I'm currently at Scrapmetal Processing 4, Refining 5 and Refinery Efficiency 5) and despite having 8.0+ standing with two NPC Corps.
Am I missing something here, or is a lot of time and financial investment about to be wiped out? fortunately for you, they've announced this change months in advance Exactly. You have several months before the change goes into effect, during which you can clear out your inventory. Update your buying price to reflect the new mineral content of the modules after the change. It will take a while for prices to adjust, but once they have you can resume business as usual. If anything this is a long-term boost to those who specialize in this business model because the barrier of entry has increased from Scrapmetal Processing 4 to Scrapmetal Processing 5.
This assumes that people who loot missions will stay constant... which is not guaranteed at all. Also this assumes that margins will double in the long terms...
To be honest nerfing the refine rate is fine.. but nerfing it this much? I mean whats the real problem here? Why is this change necessary? Because I'm not convinced. The numbers seem so arbitrary... |

Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
8
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Posted - 2014.03.21 18:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:Weaselior wrote:Yeah, I did the math as well: mineral compression is not as good as 425mms. I'm guessing that CCP made a mistake and assumed that, if you did a 100% refine the compressed ore is as good as 425mms are now. That's wrong though, it should be as good as 425mms are if you did a 86.86% refine, the highest you can get. That requires packing the ore a little bit more densely. CCP Ytterbium: Could you take another look at the compression values and make sure they're where you want them to be, assuming you refine at a 60% minmatar instead of a hypothetical 100% refine? What makes you think that CCP didn't want to nerf compression? That would make a lot more sense to me seeing as CCP are trying to encourage industry to be conducted in null sec, including mining. It doesn't mention in the blog that CCP want to keep compression ratios exactly the same as they are now. I don't think CCP has made a mistake here, this is working as intended, and a very good change in my opinion.
If there intended goal was to nerf compression why not just change the m3 values of the modules themselves, I mean its not very realistic in the first place.
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Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
8
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Posted - 2014.03.21 18:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Querns wrote:Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:If there intended goal was to nerf compression why not just change the m3 values of the modules themselves, I mean its not very realistic in the first place.
If they just targeted the current compression modules for a nerf, we'd just run a script and find the new hotness. It'd be an endless cycle of retaliation until everything in eve is significantly larger than its constituent minerals. Ripping the bandaid off all at once and saying "reprocessing values for all scrap metal is capped at 55% of its constituent minerals" does the deed in a much more elegant fashion.
Umm I have a spreadsheet that shows ALL what all the modules reprocess into. (I use this everyday) I don't think it would be hard to make min m3 = module m3.
This is a stupid excuse. |

Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 18:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:Querns wrote:Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:If there intended goal was to nerf compression why not just change the m3 values of the modules themselves, I mean its not very realistic in the first place.
If they just targeted the current compression modules for a nerf, we'd just run a script and find the new hotness. It'd be an endless cycle of retaliation until everything in eve is significantly larger than its constituent minerals. Ripping the bandaid off all at once and saying "reprocessing values for all scrap metal is capped at 55% of its constituent minerals" does the deed in a much more elegant fashion. Umm I have a spreadsheet that shows what ALL the modules reprocess into. (I use this everyday) I don't think it would be hard to make min m3 = module m3. This is a stupid excuse. Nope it Is not a stupid excuse. CCP have already followed this exact method you suggest to nerf compression ratios before, and if they do it again then module's will just balloon in size for little reason. It was never intended that modules where meant to be refined in this way for transport, and as soon as CCP figured out what was happening they have taken numerous steps to try and rectify the situation over the years. They have done as you suggest and increased the m3 of module, and they even bought out a brand new ship (rorqual) to try and encourage people to use that instead. Unless they balloon modules to ridiculous sizes, then they will never fix the problem with mineral compression. With this change though they have finally nailed it once and for all.
The Mineral M3 = Module M3 (for all modules) There is no room for compression here. They could have done this if they wanted to. |

Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 18:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:The Mineral M3 = Module M3 (for all modules) There is no room for compression here. They could have done this if they wanted to. You must be trolling. Sorry CCP messed up your spreadsheet, but anyone can see why mineral m3 = module m3 would be a ridiculous situation.
Its really just a simple formula that has to be added (to my spreadsheet nothing is ruined)
I don't understand would this make logistics harder? .. good its already to easy. |
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Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
14
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Posted - 2014.04.28 22:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ore/Ice
Effective Yield = Station Equipment x (1 + Refining skill x 0.03) x (1 + Refining Efficiency skill x 0.02) x (1 + Ore Processing skill x 0.02) ) x (1+ImpantMod x 0.01)
Scrap
Effective Yield = Station Equipment x (1 + Scrap Processing skill x 0.02) )
I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for why non-Ore/Ice is only being effected by Scrap-metal Reprocessing and none of the other skills?
In the dev blog you say you want to make refining more specialized yet between someone with 0 - Scrap Metal Reprocessing OR ANY other 0-Refining skills you get 50% yield and if you train ScrapMetal to 5 you get 55% ... Only 5% difference in effective yield from a 0 skill point character?
The Reasoning behind the Ore Skills being Marginally worse the more Specialized you get was sound. My complaint here is that Scrap Metal isn't really being treated as a specialized skill in the formula ... I suggest keep scrapmetal processing at 5% per level so that the refining yields are
http://i.imgur.com/6C9ycFi.png
This will allow people that refine Scap... to be more specialized then a 0 Sp character and still keeps the A heavy nerf on module compression..
Someone who enjoys playing with the market in this area
Destitute Tehol Beddict
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